You may remember a post from just over two months ago when I wrote about how we were retiring our beloved purple van. I did a full analysis on what the van cost us over the time we had it, then I looked at the cost per month to get an idea of whether a used car is worth it or not. I really enjoyed collecting all the data and doing a case study.
If you recall, the total cost broke down to $166 per month for the 4 years and 3 months that we had it. That sounded pretty nice and reasonable to me. I especially enjoyed reading your comments and reading your varied experiences, perspectives, and opinions.
Well I wasn’t planning on doing another used car analysis for a long time…. Do you see where this is going?! 🙁
If you aren’t interested in the story part of it, you can just scroll down to the numbers. I’m warning you, though, it’s not pretty!
Some Background & An Update
I’ve been wanting to give an update for several weeks now, bu I’ve been waiting for a “resolution” first. It looks like now is as good a time as any.
When we first retired the purple van, we knew it had a transmission issue in the works. It had also started making a suspicious ticking noise. Knowing that its registration date was coming up, we decided to start looking for a new van so we wouldn’t have to register the purple one again (you know, to save money). So we bought the red van and starting trying to figure out what to do with the purple one.
After driving the red van for a few days, an acquaintance asked what had happened to the purple van. After I explained its problems, he asked if we would sell it to him for a good price. He had a friend who could help him fix the transmission. That was a Friday.
On Saturday we tried to call him to offer him the purple van, but I could not find his number anywhere.
On Sunday, we drove the red van to church. As we were returning home, enjoying the air conditioning we had missed in the last few years of our purple van, the red van lost all power and stopped. After a few minutes of rest, it started up again. This happened three times.
With the help of Google, my husband tried trouble-shooting, but to no avail. Then he had the thought to take a deeper look at the purple van. He checked the oil… and it was very low. He filled it up, we took it for a drive, and voila– the ticking stopped. I know what you’re thinking. Go ahead and make fun of us.
So we abandoned the red van, fearing it might stop any time, and went back to our trusty purple van for a few weeks. We were so glad that we hadn’t sold it the day before. What a blessing to have the purple van to drive while we figure out what is wrong with the red one.
In fact, I got to pass a special milestone with the purple van. (see below) How cool is that odometer reading! I watched and waited to capture it.
We were coming up on the purple van’s registration being due, so I went to have it smogged. The nice employee who peeked in my window saw that the check engine light was on. He told me that the smog test will automatically fail if the check engine light is on. I was thankful he told me that before I paid $70 for the test.
I took the purple van to the mechanic to see what code was causing the check engine light (I even had a coupon to do it for free). About seven different codes came back all relating to the transmission. As we had suspected.
I’m not sure how it works in other states, but California is pretty serious about its smog test. You cannot register or transfer title (sell) without passing smog. So we can’t sell the purple van period. I’m still hoping to sell those new tires on it.
So after driving a while with expired registration (trying to avoid going anywhere except down the street to get the kids from school), we got brave enough to start driving the red van again, hoping it wouldn’t randomly die on us again. For the record, my husband won’t drive the van with expired plates. It’s just me breaking the law here.
It seemed fine until one night on my way to go somewhere in the red van, all the dash lights started flashing every warning light and message. When I came out to the van, it wouldn’t start. I had someone jump me, which took an extraordinarily long time. The next day when I got in the car it wouldn’t start, so I resumed driving the unregistered purple van for the weekend, then called the mechanic on Monday.
Yesterday, with some jumper cables and a prayer, I got the purple van going and made it into town. The mechanic said he had no idea how I got it started because the problem with the car not starting had nothing to do with the battery. The ignition fuse was blown. He said jumping the battery wouldn’t have done anything for the fuse.
After the mechanic spent half a day looking at the van and consulting a specialist hotline, he still couldn’t figure out what was blowing the fuse. It would cost $1,500 for the labor to do all the testing which *might* show what was causing the fuse to blow on ignition, and that might be an entirely different issue from the van randomly dying. He said we can keep driving it, we just have to put a new fuse in each time we want it to start. He kindly sent me home with a package of fuses to get me started.
I just left the van running when I went to pick up my daughter after cross country practice. I figure if someone steals the van, then the joke is on them!
So, now we are in the market for yet another van. We’ll also see if the acquaintance is interested in the red van with its special quirk.
2003 Chevy Venture (red van)
At Purchase
- Purchase date: July 2015
- Age of vehicle at purchase: 12 years old
- Mileage at purchase: 162,939 miles
- Purchase Price: $1,900 (private party)
At Retirement
- Retirement date: September 2015
- Mileage at retirement: 165,621 miles
Costs: purchase, maintenance, repair
In my case study for the purple van I didn’t include registration or insurance costs. In California, the tax is wrapped up with the title transfer and registration, so I’m including it below.
| Date | Cost | Description |
| Jul-15 | $115 | Pre-purchase inspection |
| Jul-15 | $68 | Smog (normally covered by seller, but we paid) |
| Jul-15 | $1,900 | Purchase Price |
| Jul-15 | $158 | Tax, registration |
| Sep-15 | $247 | Trying to figure out what was going wrong |
Total Cost: $2,488
Totals
- Months driven: 3 months (rounding up)
- Miles driven: 2,682 miles
- Total cost (purchase and maintenance): $2,488
Over the 3 months that we drove the red van, it cost us $2,488. That breaks down to $829 per month, or in other words way too much!
If that’s not bad enough, breaking it down to the price per mile makes it sound even worse. It cost $.93 per mile, not including gas! Yowzers! As a comparison, our purple van cost just $.14 per mile over the four years we had it.
You win some. You lose some.
We definitely lost.
After realizing we bought a lemon, the last thing I want to do is go buy another car from a stranger, but that is exactly what I have to do. It was one of those times that I just wanted to curl up on my bed and stop being an adult.
Until then, looks like I need to buy these in bulk!
How About You?
- Does anyone want to share a bad car story?
- Do you love your reliable, comfortable, low-maintenance-cost van? I want to hear about it!
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Used cars are great if you want an affordable, reliable option, but here’s a little tip if you want to get a new car at a fraction of the price.
It’s always worth asking about ex-demo cars are they are almost new in some cases but the price is generally much lower, and dealerships are usually flexible on them. 🙂
Google the year, make, & model of the red van with the word “recall” and see if there’s a free repair that is needed to fix the fuse thing.
Could you donate the purple van to a trade school? They could fix the transmission as a class project.
If I had a personal connection locally (my uncle teaches auto shop, but it’s in AZ) then I might give something like that a try. With over 200K already, it’s probably not worth it, even for a project. Thanks for the thought though.
Stephanie, it just stinks that you’ve had this experience. Our two car-woe stories were both with new cars. When I was putting my husband through law school back in the early 70’s, we were spending about $30-50 a month on repairs on his gasoline-guzzling 1965 LeMans, during the oil embargo when we all had to fill up our cars on alternative days and wait in lines blocks long at gas stations to do it. We were a one-car family, and we had to have a working car. We didn’t want to buy another car, of course. We ended up buying a new car, a Toyota, without air conditioning (in Texas). Our $32.00/month note cost us about the same each month as it had to keep repairing the old car, and gas costs were much less. Only, that brand new car developed this little problem in which it just couldn’t get any power and would coast to a stop. Not fun when you live in Houston, Texas and are mostly driving on freeways. I remember once during the embargo when we were traveling to our hometown to visit our parents during a rare snow storm when the car acted up. We coasted off the highway and just baaarely made it to a service station. That was way before cell phones, of course, and we had to call my father-in-law collect to get him to come get us in a town about ninety minutes away from his. While we waited, my husband fiddled around with the car and finally it started again. He thought we should start toward our hometown again and would be on the lookout for my FIL, getting his attention easily because there weren’t many people on the highway. We didn’t want him to have to drive so far. We had gotten about ten miles away from the station when we started feeling those first signs of sluggishness again. I’m laughing as I’m typing this. If we were stopped in some entirely different place, my FIL wouldn’t know where to find us. We had no choice but to turn around and try to make it to that station again. Would you believe that we managed, just barely, to coast into that same service station before the car stopped again? So that’s one new car story. The other is that when we were still a one-car family but had our first child, we bought a new car, a diesel, because we’d read all these great things about them. We had a sailboat at a marina that had to be accessed via a bridge. The road leading to the bridge had a stoplight. If we got stopped at that light and didn’t hit the bridge already going the assigned speed, that car couldn’t make it up to the top of the bridge and would start slipping back down backwards! We learned that if we got stopped at the light, we had to pull off, circle around and try again till we made it through without stopping at the light and while going at a good clip! We once loaded up that car with all the luggage for our vacation, only to end up sitting arms crossed on the sofa at home while waiting for the tow truck to come pull our non-starting car out of the garage and take it to the dealership. That car spent something like 180 days of the first year we owned it in the shop. In that case, we were the first couple to file suit under our state’s then brand-new lemon law. With records in hand and my husband an attorney, we were reimbursed for the full cost. We still prefer new cars because we drive them so long, and we have loved Toyotas, Acuras, and Hondas. Just a few months ago, when we realized that my mobility problems meant that I wouldn’t be driving enough to justify paying insurance on my car, we sold it. It was a 1997 Acura that had never given us a moment’s trouble, and we got a picture from a very happy 17-year-old whose parents had just presented him with that red car! So, feel bad because you’ve had a run of bad luck but don’t you dare let anyone make you feel guilty or ashamed for the decisions you made. You’re bright people, and you’re making the decisions that are right for you.
That’s a funny story Linda! It’s crazy to think how we all got along before cell phones! 🙂 And hooray for the lemon law. That could have been really bad new!
I shared some of my used car woes on your other post, so I won’t go into detail. Suffice it to say that in my 5 years of marriage I have owned 4 used cars and been stranded at the side of the road (sometimes with my kids) at least 10 times. I look for the emergency flashers in any car I drive and frequently visualize “escape” plans of what to do if my car dies (even though my current car has done well). I’ve driven a ’98 Ford Taurus. I do not recommend. A 1993 Mitstsubishi ExpoLRV (THE WORST), and a ’98 Nissan Quest. For the record, the Quest was inherited and it reached 250,000 miles with no repairs (other than standard maintenance). Pretty impressive, but I’m guessing that model year is probably a little old for something you’d be looking for now. We suspect it’s demise was a mouse chewing through a wire, but it was too fossilized to be worth repairing!
Currently I drive a 2002 GMC Envoy, inherited at 160,000 miles. We’ve put 6,000 on it so far and I am loving it. It is such a solid car compared to the others I have driven. As someone mentioned, it is a real advantage to buy from someone you know, knowing they have cared for the vehicle and aren’t trying to get rid of it because of problems.
Not surprisingly, buying new sounds really appealing to me. But new cars can be lemons too, and then you’re really out a lot of money (and even under warranty, it would still be time and headache, and more repairs when the warranty ends)!
We traded the Mitsubishi for my brother’s bicycle. I’m convinced I got the better end of the bargain (and he’s equally convinced that he did, haha)!
I can imagine the appeal of a new car after being stranded that many times! Yikes! That’s pretty funny about the bike trade!
Do you have a technical high school with auto shop classes? My son did a TON of work last year on his truck during his auto shop class. We just paid for the parts. Maybe the teacher would like to give the students a mystery challenge.
I realize Click & Clack on NPR is in re-runs, but I believe the discussion boards are still live and active. Maybe a car geek will have some answers for the red van.
Those are great suggestions LIbby! Right now I’m driving it, just replacing the fuse as needed. We’re trying to put together our own hypothesis while we search for a new van.
That reminds me of a horrible wood-paneled station wagon I bought for $800 in college. That thing broke down every month without fail, and cost thousands in repairs. It was so evil to me, my friends named it Lucifer. We bought a brand new Sienna in early 2014, and I am very happy with it. We intend to drive it into the ground. I drive so little now, I hope we can get 15 years, if not more, out of it.
Awesome– I hope your Sienna lasts that long too! We’re looking at Siennas, though not new ones. 🙂
I say buying anything used is a gamble. Especially if its had multiple owners, you just don’t know what the people have done to it. It all depends on your luck, you guys are 50/50 lol so i say the next time around you guys are probably going to have much better luck.
I like that perspective Mike! It’s our turn for a winner now!
I bought a used Jeep Cherokee on Craigslist for $12,500. I done a pre purchase inspection with a dealership, so the service records and recalls could be seen, if service was done with dealership. I was lucky I’ve been driving it for five years 60K miles no issues but routine service. In Arizona no tax on used cars purchased private party saves A Lot of money.
That sounds like a good success story Becky! Thanks for sharing!
Wow. That stinks. Don’t beat yourself up about it though – all we can do is make the best decision we can with the information we have at the time. At least, that’s what I tell myself!
I bought a new Honda CRV in 2004 for around $24,000.00, with no money down but a sweet interest rate. I paid it off in under 3 years, and it still runs GREAT today. I took it to the dealer not too long ago for my 100,000 mile maintenance – and I’m confident it has another 100,000 miles in it! So far, it’s cost me around $2300.00 a year. I anticipate driving it at least 5 more years – and my younger son is eyeballing it for the future, so I think it has been well worth the money.
We hadn’t even considered buying a new one but my last old beater caught on fire and my younger son was in a car seat – which was difficult to free him from in my panicked state. I had a major meltdown and had already negotiated the price down on the new Honda CRV via email by the time my husband came home from work! I drive quite a bit for my job, although not long distances, so I consider it a necessity to have a car I trust!
That is scary to have a fire like that! I always think through crazy scenarios like that I “plan” how I could react (though I have never had any of these crazy scenarios actually happen, thank goodness!). Having kids in car seats (especially more than one in car seats) in a time sensitive get-out-of-the-car emergency is one that kids of makes me panic inside. I’m glad it turned out well for you!
A few months ago i took my car in for a new cam belt. There were a few other things i paid for. Then not a week later 5th gear broke. Most of my driving is motor ways and dual carriage ways and i have a long commute. Plus when it broke i had no idea whether it was a gearbox problem or just a 5th gear problem. Well between the two periods in the garage/being fixed, it cost me a month’s wages. Just before i was due to go on holiday. Thankfully I’d saved more than i needed for my holiday so it wasnt a problem. But at the time the garage was kind of pushing for my to give up on the car (it’s a citroen and many mechanics dont like french cars for some reason).
A friend of mine is more of a car expert than me and we had lots of discussions about the best thing to do. They’re actually still ongoing but anyway. The conclusion at the time is that i could spent the time and money buying another second hand car for it to breakdown the next week. My car was owned by one person before me, and it’s just gone straight throuh its MOT for the first time in years. It wont last forever so I’m let wondering what to do about replacing. The only way i can afford new or nearly new is to either use most of my savings or borrow. I need to do the sums but it’s possible borrowing will be cheaper than another second hand car.
It is a tough decision to make, as you never quite know what you’ll get. We’re going to be more diligent at looking at reviews this time. You definitely have to consider time lost at work though. Good luck!
P.S. I think in your case a hail storm would be the perfect solution!
So sorry to hear about the car troubles. I know you guys maintain a pretty positive attitude about these things, but you must be getting fed up by now.
Fortunately there’s a lot of space on the spectrum between “expensive brand new car with warranty” on one end, and “cheap used junker” on the other. Our personal experience last year buying a replacement vehicle (after a freak hail storm–long story) was challenging because we were budgeting about $3000-$5000 and everything that met our standards (reliable model, preferably under 100k) was more like in the $6000-$8000 range. We decided that what we needed was a reliable vehicle and ended up using some funds that had been earmarked for student loan repayment to increase our price point, but we ended up getting a 2004 Sienna with 105,000 miles on it, for $7100. Still pretty reasonable (some would still consider it an unacceptably old car–but it’s the newest vehicle I’ve ever owned and feels very fancy!) and so far we have been very happy with our “new” van. And as another commenter mentioned previously, it does not have the automatic doors or seat adjusters so there is less to go wrong!
I guess I have a lot of faith in statistics and consumer reviews. Looking at CR we decided to rule out most domestic models because their ratings (for models in the years we were shopping in) were very poor compared to Toyotas and Hondas. At least statistically speaking, they seem to be worth the extra purchase price. Hopefully nine years from now we can still say that!
We are looking at Siennas in that same range. I hope yours lasts the next 9 years! 🙂 It’s raining outside right now (which is super exciting for our drought conditions), but maybe I should start praying for hail instead! 🙂
I am so so sorry this is happening to you. I can’t imagine the stress of driving either of those vans with kids, worrying about them breaking down, and on top of that the financial stress!
When we were close to finishing law school, our trusty little 92 Accord started to have issues (in 2014, so it had been pretty good so far!). And, we found out we were having a 4th baby, so we needed a van! I was just done with worrying about another used car having major issues, so we opted to buy a Toyota Sienna (used) from Carmax with a 5 year transmission/major engine repair warranty. It cost us an extra $1700 on top of the purchase price, but I knew that generally Siennas were good cars, and that if anything major went wrong, it was on them to fix it. I know everyone always says to pay for cars in cash, but with our Honda, we would have had a $1500 repair bill and that wouldn’t have guaranteed that we wouldn’t have more problems in the future. There are days where I wish we didn’t have a payment, but because interest rates are so low, our payments are about $294/month and I know (hope, I should say) the van will last much longer than that because of its low mileage (74,000 when we bought it). We are a one-car family, so we really need our van to be reliable.
We’re looking at Siennas (and Odysseys) now. That’s really nice to have the 5 year warranty! That figures out to $340 per year. It would definitely be nice to know that you’re covered if there is an engine or tranny problem.
We bought used cars a few times from rental car companies. It doesn’t matter if it is Avis, Hertz, or Budget. They all take very good care of their vehicles. Equally important, you can negotiate a good price for a car that is 3 to 5 years old. My husband did the negotiating since he knows a lot about cars.
I always let my husband do the negotiating too. I used to be better at that sort of thing, but my recent negotiating mostly has to do with dessert, homework or bedtime! 🙂
We try to always buy a Demo. Usually with about 6K miles. This saves us the depreciation of a brand new car (once you drive it off the lot) and seems to be the best of both worlds. Used, but practically brand new. Wish we had figured this out a long time ago and hadn’t bought so many brand new cars! This is our new method and we love it!
I added a PS from my phone last night, but I guess it didn’t “take.” Just wanted to add that to this point we have always financed our vehicles, because we get an interest rate of just under ONE percent! We have other debts with much higher interest rates, so our choice is to focus on paying those off. Also, my current vehicle came with a 5 year warranty which includes them replacing/fixing ANYTHING for free, even things such as brake pads that where out. So I am set for 5 years with the price of the slightly used vehicle. I will say though that we are planning to pay cash for my husband’s next vehicle, and after we pay off a couple smaller debts, we are gonna focus on saving up for when that time comes.
I can’t imagine having a car with so fer miles! That’s awesome that you are planning to pay car for his next vehicle!
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. Especially since you are such a careful spender, it must feel just awful to be in this position through no fault of your own! I wish you luck finding another vehicle, hopefully at a very reasonable price. I agree with you that it’s such a gamble and you never know how it’ll turn out.
I’m still in shock at how lucky we got with my husband’s most recent vehicle. He bought a used, 2 year old Toyota truck from a private seller when gas prices hit an all-time high back in 2009/2010 for $19,000. It had lots of add-ons, but no 4 wheel drive. That wasn’t a big deal until we moved to Wyoming! He needed a 4WD vehicle to travel for work in the winter, and since there is no resale market for trucks without 4WD here I was sick thinking of how little we’d get as a trade-in (I always did private sale to maximize my profit). . . . but he got $15,000! It was NOT in perfect condition – had a dent, a rust spot, tears in the leather, etc. So he drove a beautiful, two year old vehicle for five years for the equivalent of $66 a month! Not including maintenance, but it never had a problem since it was a Toyota (yes, I’m biased here! I only buy Hondas or Toyotas). I know we’ll never get THAT lucky again, but man was it a great feeling. And since I’ve always been the ‘drive my cars into the ground’ kind of person (ahem, maybe even a little high and mighty about it . . . ) I realized that isn’t the only way to save money on vehicles!
Like someone else mentioned, buying used vehicles (especially those coming off leases, like someone else mentioned, which is what I’ve always done) and selling them around 80,000 miles can really make a lot of financial sense. Especially because you generally won’t incur any big maintenance expenses during that time. I know this isn’t compatible with your current huge, amazing and ambitious goal of paying off loans ASAP, but in the future when you’re willing to lay a little more money on the table up front it might make a lot of sense.
We are looking at Hondas and Toyotas now! Their vans get great ratings, no matter what the year. In the future we might look into used vehicles that were previously leased, but until we pay off our loans (and probably get a house) we will probably drive older cars! 🙂
I mentioned this on your last post and everyone considers leasing cars to be the ultimate in money wasting, but again after seeing your monthly expense, I’m convinced leasing is the stress-free way to go! We are currently leasing a Honda Fit with zero down and it is only $189/month. No smog tests and oil changes are covered by the dealership. Yes, we are just “renting” a car more or less. But the cost is simply $189 for a brand new car with nothing wrong with it and no maintenance costs. When our lease is over, we lease another one. In this price range, we’ve leased Mazda 3s, Honda Fits, Honda Civics and a VW Jetta. Small, economy cars, yes. But they are brand new and very fuel efficient and I haven’t had to go to a mechanic or had a car problem in over ten years.
Before this, I always bought used. My first car was a great little $400 (a 1980s Dodge Colt) car that lasted four years with no problems. So that one had an average cost of $8/month! That’s the dream! Course it didn’t have airbags or air conditioning or heat or basically anything, lol. And the bumper was attached with a wire. And I had to start it by giving it a jump for a good 8 months, lol.
After that I bought used certified car from a dealership for $5000 and it was a lemon and only lasted one year with tons of problems. I sold it for $1000 because it was worthless, needed a transmission and had a cracked engine block. But I put way more than $1000 into it for repairs so it was $416.66/month at least. Yikes.
Next I bought a decent used car for $6000. I had to replace many things to the tune of $1800 over the course of the next two years. In the end, the cost to fix it again was more than I was willing to spend so I sold it for $3200. So this one was $209/month. Not too bad, but still MORE than I pay now to lease brand new cars.
So my last used car purchase was a certified pre-owned Honda Civic. It was $13,000. I had very little problems with it actually, it was a great car. Other than oil changes and new brakes/tires, I didn’t put any money into it. I won’t even add those costs. I had the car for four years and then sold it for $4500 because I wasn’t using it much and needed the cash more than the car. So that was $193/month not including brakes/tires/oil changes. Not bad but still more than my current leasing costs!
So other than my wonderful first car that was a total beater (and I woudn’t feel safe driving kids in it now) I actually spent more money/month buying used cars than I ever have in the last ten years of leasing.
Thanks for sharing Amber! You inspired us to take a look at the possibilities of leasing (where we never would have even considered it previously). I wish there were options like that for minivans! The money down for a minivan (I think it was $4500), is around what we want to *pay* for a van to keep! My husband also took a look at possibilities for himself, but he drives too many miles per year (he would use up the miles for a 36 month lease in the first 12 months). If someone is looking for a small, practical car like you then, I think it could be a viable option. Thanks!
I personally have not had good experiences with used cars. DH and I now are of the opinion that if at all possible, we will buy them new, maintain them very well, and drive them till they are completely dead, and then go buy another new one, preferably for cash. I totally understand others having a different philosophy though. Everyone has to choose what is best for their situation.
I’ve only had 4 cars in my entire life that had less than 100,000 miles on them when I got them, so my bad experiences could be related to that. Two of those were brand-new, the other two were slightly used, but still gave us all kinds of trouble. One of the slightly used cars was a 1999 Chevy Malibu that we bought in 2000 at the dealership – it was a demo car with 28,000 miles on it. At least it came with a warranty because we needed it. That first year, we replaced the head gasket twice, the alternator, the starter, the entire brake system, and within the 5 years we owned it, we replaced just about every component on it except the transmission and the engine. Oh, and it needed new brake pads and rotors every 6 weeks or so. Fortunately DH was trained as a mechanic so he could do the brakes himself.
The other “new” car was a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan we bought in January 2006 to replace the Malibu, which died on DH and left him stranded. We had it towed to the mechanic’s shop (he was on the way there when it died) and they said the engine was totally blown. The Grand Caravan was a nice minivan but it also gave us all sorts of fits for the 3-1/2 years we had it. Nothing worse than having car payments PLUS expensive repair bills. We replaced the water pump, transmission, AC compressor (twice), alternator (twice), power steering pump, starter, ignition coil, radiator (three times), and it also had intermittent electrical issues, which caused the check engine light to come on. Like you, it was time to have it inspected and registered, and we couldn’t do either one without fixing the check engine light. Trouble was, the shop couldn’t ever find the problem. It would intermittently die on us in Houston traffic. We traded it in during the “Cash for Clunkers” program to a brand-new Hyundai Elantra, which we still have and has never given us any problems. We were upside down on the minivan plus all those repair bills. I could have more than paid cash for the Hyundai for what we spent on the minivan.
DH had a 1998 Dodge Neon that we bought for $3500 in 2007 because we needed a second car so I could get back and forth to a new job I had just got. The poor car was well used and abused when we bought it. We bought it at a new-car dealership, but that didn’t mean the car was any good. We had a lot of trouble with it too over the years. It died on DH in the middle of a busy street – again during Houston’s rush hour traffic – and he managed to push it to a gas station and call me. That car was replaced with a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder for $5000 that we had for 2-1/2 years. It had 183,000 miles on it. Again, we bought it from a new-car dealership for cash. From last October to January of this year, we put about $2300 into the Pathfinder to keep it running. Earlier last year, we put about $1600 into it for repairs. It never left either of us stranded, but it was a huge mental strain not knowing when the next time it would break down or how much it was going to cost. The repairs ate through our savings and then some. In February, we traded it in on a 2015 Toyota Tundra. This was the same month I paid off the Hyundai. Here I was hoping for a few months without car payments, but that didn’t happen. We knew we were going to have to replace the Pathfinder this year, but I was hoping it would be later in the year, not at the beginning.
We wanted a Toyota Highlander or Toyota 4Runner to pull a pop-up camper, but wound up with the Tundra instead. Believe it or not, it was less expensive and has a much greater towing capacity. I personally know someone who has 1,000,000 + miles on his 2001 Toyota Tacoma pickup that he bought brand new in 2001. It’s still going strong. We’re hoping for the same with the Tundra (and the Hyundai for that matter).
I’m sorry for writing a book here. Stephanie, good luck with your car woes. I do hope you find something that fits your needs and your budget. Maybe a Toyota minivan might work for you? Toyota was my one exception to having a used car that lasted for quite a while, when I was much younger.
Yes, this is why we bought a Toyota minivan ourselves. A friend of mine said her mom had one and drove it to almost 300,000 miles. We have a 2007 (sticker price for 74,000 was around 13,500, but you can find them for lower sometimes) and my friend’s dad said those years have more space than the newer ones.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. We are considering Toyota Siennas. My husband’s car is a Toyota Camry and we are hoping it gets near 300K!
Ok…I do understand you need to purchase a used vehicle. But, as you just pointed out, it cost you 800+ a month, not to mention the time you lost(which has a cost). You also live somewhere where you must have a reliable vehicle.
What about a certified preowned car? If you need a loan, go to a credit union, get the financing FIRST, then shop for the car. Then you are comfortable with the terms.
I do understand why you want to buy the car outright. But you knew this could happen when you moved to the boondocks to have no rent. It’s the cost of the choice you made, isn’t it?
Yep! It totally is. 🙂 We are making the choice to live in the boonies and we made the choice to buy an older car (and to go to law school, have a family, stay home with my kids, etc). We accepted all the risks and accept the consequences too. I am all for owning and taking responsibility for my choices.
We don’t claim to be perfect with our finances (or anything, for that matter). I didn’t write this post to say “boo hoo, poor us” or to blame anyone. Since this blog is “personal finance made public” I wanted to explain our car situation since it’s a big deal financially for us. I wanted to write about it in detail before I mention in my monthly budget report “oh, and we bought another van this month!” 🙂
Yikes! That is NOT a fun experience – I’m so sorry you went through that! We bought my husband’s truck new because the truck he wanted retains value really well and buying slightly used just wasn’t worth it. My next car will likely be slightly used, just because I feel like buying new can waste a bit of money. When my friend bought his last car, he hired a guy to give the car a complete “inspection” and he wrote up a detailed report of everything wrong with the car. (He even drove out to the car on the dealer’s lot!) I think it cost around $150. Also, I think mechanic shops will do this same service if you can get the seller to agree to letting you get the car checked out by a mechanic. It might be worth looking into something like that since a car is an investment and you are needing to get the most for your $$! The small up-front expense could save you thousands if the car you want to buy is unknowingly a lemon. Hope your next car buying experience is much better! Also, are you close to a state line where you could drive it over the state border to sell it if they don’t have the same smog restrictions?
The crazy things is that we did take the car to a mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection. It wasn’t our normal mechanic because we bought the car about an hour away. Even though the inspection didn’t find anything wrong, I’m really glad we did it because otherwise I would have huge regrets, thinking that they probably would have found something.
I’m not sure how it would work to sell in Nevada (our closest border). I don’t imagine the purple van would sell for much anyway with no A/C and a transmi$$ion problem. It’s just sad that we can’t sell it to someone here who actually *wants* it, problems and all. Thanks for brainstorming for us though!
Stephanie- I want you to know that you can sell a car that won’t pass smog in Nevada. When I sold my 2001 Honda Civic with 243k miles on it it had no AC, a huge crack in the rear bumper, a belt problem, and wouldn’t pass smog because of a catalytic converter issue. I listed it on Reno craigslist for $500 OBO to the first person to show and someone came with $700 less than an hour later.
Thanks for the heads-up CeCee! Our cars probably aren’t worth enough to go through the trouble to sell them out of state, but thanks for the suggestion!
I agree that buying used can be the way to go, but a dealership is probably your best bet. Make sure you stick to a budget (which I am sure you will do), and don’t be afraid to ask for what you want and leave if they don’t have it.
When I was shopping for my current vehicle, I knew I wanted a small SUV with all wheel drive (we wanted something that could go into the mountains during the winter without any problem) with the lowest possible miles and for no more than $10,000. The day we went to the dealership, they didn’t have a lot to show us, but one sales guy told us that there was a car they had just taken in that hadn’t been cleaned if we were ok with taking a look at it. We did. We test drove it. We ended up buying it.
It was an “undesirable color” (read: brown) and a 2005 model, but it was owned by a couple that both worked from home so they had only put about 44,000 miles on it over the time that they owned the car. And, it came with an impeccable service record. Long story short, the car you and your family need is out there! You’ll find it!
Thanks for the encouraging story Amy! 🙂 There is hope!
That’s how I got mine! And the second they started trying to convince me to by a new car for “just a little more” and talking about the monthly payments (versus the overall price) I left. One in particular that was trying to get me to spend more was my brother in law!
I rarely post, but as with others I can see this hit a nerve. We have always been of the school of drive a older car until it absolutely dies.
This past year we had three drivers using one car. Our college-aged daughter’s schedule between school and work was the most tricky. So my husband mostly rode the bus (which is quite time consuming). I mostly went without a car. My niece had a Prius which she was going to sell. The 50 cents a gallon mileage was very appealing. The mechanic checked it out and felt that it would still go a long way. It had a lot of miles–187,000. Between purchasing and paying the needed repairs–brakes, tires, registration. We were in it about $5,000.
Insuring a teenage driver is a tricky decision. Because the car was 12 years old and had so many miles, I decided to only put on liability. Two months after purchasing the car, our daughter was driving in Salt Lake City during rush hour. The steering wheel started to vibrate so she tried to move over one lane to get off at the exit.
The steering wheel locked and it shot her across all lanes of rush hour traffic. She hit the center freeway barrier at 70 miles an hour. The impact pushed her back across all lanes of rush hour traffic and she hit the right hand barrier.
It is miraculous that she wasn’t again pushed back into oncoming traffic. In all of that, she clipped the bumper of another car. It is a miracle that she wasn’t killed. When she called us hysterically telling us the car was totaled, we immediately left but she was close to an hour away. Later I asked her who had called 911. She said that two different women stopped. One had seen the accident and thought that it was a fatality.
My husband researched the problem and it looks like there was a recall on the steering of that car. My niece had bought it used so she hadn’t been notified of the problem.
When one of my brothers heard, he called up and offered to sell us a car that he had at a great price. Our other car, a 1998 Mercury Grand Marquis that we had–had a terrible year. It was $400 here and $600 there before we knew it we were into that car $2500 plus my daughter has put quite a bit more money into it this year.
Driving the Prius cost us approximately $2,500 per month for two months for a total of $5,000. We then bought my brother’s car and put a ton of repairs into our daughters’ car. By the end of the year we were close to $15,000. We’ve been married 37 years and we’ve never had a year like this.
However, when I start feeling overwhelmed by this, I remember that our daughter is alive and there is no way she should have survived that. She was stiff and sore, had a 1 inch rip in her favorite jeans and broke her glasses.
Wow Judy! What a miracle that your daughter survived! That is one scary, scary accident. You are so right– it’s important to keep that perspective!
Judy, I am not a religious person, but your daughter surely had an angel on her shoulder that day. I’m so glad for all of you that she came through physically unscathed. Wow. That’s a good lesson for any of us buying used, though, to check through the manufacturer to see if there have been any recalls. So important to be able to get the car can be checked out to see if the repairs have been done so folks have to live through the horror your family did.
I think it depends…. I would go for and older car, with few/no electronics if I didn’t live in Las Vegas and have a 50+ mile commute every day. The problem with a used newer car IS the electronics, if a major component goes out you either pay dearly or park the car. I see the days of reliable used cars with 150,000+ mileage in the past. My new CRV has electronic assist steering and a drive by wire throttle, how is that going to work out for some unsuspecting buyer 15-20 years from now, probably not well. We got burned on one used car. We bought a 2005 F-350 crew cab diesel with 40,000 miles on it and it was beautiful. Within 1 month (the 1st time towing our trailer) we realized it had a blown head gasket (weak point in the ’05 350). Ford didn’t want to fix it, the dealer wouldn’t take it back or help. After months of dealing with Ford, and threatening to sue the dealership for selling us an as-is no warranty with a known problem (service records!) Ford fixed it. The cab had to be removed from the frame and the head gasket was fixed at a cost of 4 weeks of rental car out of pocket. Overall it was a terrible decision to buy a used workhorse like the 350, too many problems with that engine, the costs for everything was through the roof and the issues just kept coming over the following year. We traded it in. The unfortunate thing ~ it was labeled to go to auction in another state. The poor person who purchased it at that point had a new head gasket yay, but no access to the prior and current service records and all of our documented concerns with the vehicle. I have very little trust in used cars and dealerships after that fiasco.
Yikes! That is sad about the truck– and for the next owner. Stories like that just show that you might not be any better off buying a used car from a dealer than from a private party. Any you’re so right about the electronics. Used cars in the next decade could be really bad news.
That stinks that you ended up with a lemon! No fun when you spend more than the car just to keep it running.
We stick with a happy medium-buying cars that are a few years old so the biggest chunk of depreciation is done but it still is reliable for many years to come (without too much repairs). We are not knowledgeable on repairs and our state is fairly strict on annual inspections.
That’s the plan my inlaws use with good success!
I really feel for you with all this car trouble. It’s the worst!
My first car was bought used at a dealership. It was a lemon, but I was too young to realize it at the time. The A/C had no compressor (thus no A/C), and to make the windshield wipers go on, you had do some some crazy combo of turning them on and then hitting the brakes and turning on the fan. The car had had an electrical fire that the dealer conveniently neglected to tell me. Honestly, I haven’t bought a used car since.
My recent car was bought new, but as someone mentioned above, was bought at the very end of the calendar year so that it was basically a clearance model. It has really worked out well for us, we got a great price since they were running out of time to sell it, and I would definitely do it this way again. Hopefully, that is a LONG way off!
Good luck. Have you considered CarMax for your next car? I think they have a 30 day no-questions asked return policy if I remember correctly. I think if there is a problem with the car, you’ll know about it for sure within 30 days. Great advice to have a mechanic inspect it top to bottom as well.
Wow! That first car would totally turn me off of used cars too, though I had to laugh at the quirky things you had to do to get the wipers to go on. We have the opposite problem in the purple van– sometimes the wipers will randomly go on by themselves. You can’t turn them off, just have to wait for the quirky fit to end.
I have looked at CarMax online, and thought about doing a trade-in there (you don’t have to buy their car, but they’ll still buy yours), but I think their inventory is out of our price range right now. I didn’t see anything for less than $10K.
My parent’s cars broke down all the time while I was growing up and I vowed never to leave my family stranded on the side of the road in the middle of the night. I remember as a little kid watching my dad hop in a car to hitch hike while leaving my mom and two little kids in the car wondering if he would come back. They always bought cheap and always paid for it in the end with constant repairs and breakdowns. I have always paid a little bit more upfront for the comfort of not having the headaches about cars breaking down or needing repairs. We bought a used car in 2005 and 2006 and both were lease returns which meant they had to be in immaculate shape for people to return them. We didn’t have to pay the new car price and got each car $20-30,000 less than brand new. We have driven them for 10 years and 9 years with no repairs beyond the basic oil changes and tires. My car just went over 200,000 miles and my wife’s is around 84,000 miles and we don’t expect them to shut down anytime soon. Cars are a pain, it was worth saving a little longer, paying cash and not thinking about them again.
People always say “I don’t want to end up stranded on the side of the road,” but I always took that as more of an expression, since I have never actually been stranded or have to call for help. I can totally see how witnessing that as a kid would make you never want to put your family through that. Buying lease returns sounds like a good option. That’s great that your cars are still going strong! 🙂
I am sorry that is happening to you. I have mixed feeling about used cars. I bought a used Honda when I was 21 and drove it for 8 years and paid it off in less than 2. It was a reliable car that gave me a lot of financial freedom. We bought a used Chrysler Van 3 years ago and just got rid of it. It was such an expensive purchase. We were still paying for it and every time we turned around it needed a $500 repair. The miles were under 50K when we bought it and we had planned to have it forever but we gladly traded it in. I think it just boils down to luck. I have also heard of certain makes and models (2001 Town and Country vans) that will last forever. One thing I have never jived with that Dave Ramsey proposes is the $1000 junker. Where are all of these wondrously reliable $1,000 cars he is talking about??? The only people that I have seen this work for in real like are the folks who have a lot of experience repairing cars and no commutes. When in college I drove a $1,000 clunker NEVER again. It was always breaking down and now with kids in the upper midwest (cold) I won’t be stuck on the side of the road calling friends to come rescue us. And my husband has a job that requires a reliable car and public transportation is not an option. We don’t need brand new cars but reliable cars are a must.
That’s awesome that your Honda lasted 8 years! So much of it does just seem like luck. You can do all of your “homework” and still end up with a lemon. I just hope we don’t get two lemons in a row. We’ll check some consumer reports to see which makes/models/years seem to be the most reliable and go from there. Thanks for casting your vote for the 2001 Town and Country. 🙂
We used to buy used cars for the “no car payment” factor. But after law school, our car started breaking down every month and our New York costs to fix them were $500 a month. We hadn’t been planning on buying a newer car for several more years and we were in a predicament! We decided to go new for the peace of mind. My husband had no time to deal with car problems and we only had the one car and it needed to work! So we changed our minds and bought new and have a car payment. We actually love the car and may never go back! When we moved to SLC, we had a new predicament because we only had one car and needed another and we hadn’t been planning to move from New York so soon, so we got another small car payment on a cheaper, gas efficient, newer car. The plan is to drive it until the oldest gets her license (10 years from when we bought it) and pay the loan down quickly. And pay cash from now on!
New cars with warranties (and no previous owners problems, etc) do sound pretty enticing right now, I’m not gonna lie! With our big goal of paying off these student loans asap, we just won’t do it though.
I’m curious what cars you got that you love! That’s great that you have a 10 year plan. I’ll have a driver around that time too! 😉 Crazy to think about, huh?!
we bought a Toyota Highlander, which has an optional third row and a back up camera ( which has saved at least one child’s life and prevented several accidents in small New York parking garages). it’s not the fanciest version, our children still have to entertain themselves in the car, but we do love it! It has been perfect for carpools and wasn’t too large to drive in New York City. The other car is a Toyota Corolla and it also is not the fanciest version, but that doesn’t matter because the engine is new. It also gets a lot of good gas mileage. and my husband treats at my kids baby! He washes it and vacuums it incessantly.
this whole driving bit makes me realize that both our girls will be baptized next year! That’s crazy!
Also, the plan is to have his car paid off by January.
Oh man car wows- I am familiar with those! We bought a new 2010 dodge grand caravan when we were expecting our 3rd child. We lived in a rural area without many options and we needed to get out of a lease with the vehicle we had at that time (long story- not our first choice and a big mistake). We started having trouble with this van that was supposed to be about $23000 but ended up at $340000 some how. Now 5 years later we have had so many headaches with this van and paid a ton on maintenance. It is just about to reach 100,000 km and the transmission is not looking good. We finally paid it off the middle of 2014 and have sworn we will never buy new again. Instead of putting our monthly car payment towards something else we started putting 1/2 of it towards a “new” car fund and 1/4 of it towards our maintenance fund. We are hoping to get another 5 years out of our van and then have the cash to buy a used but only few years old one. I am not holding my breath though.
Anytime you buy a second hand vehicle it is definitely worth the investment of getting a mechanic to look at it prior to the purchase.
Hi Christina! The crazy thing is we DID have the van inspected before we bought it. We’ve done that on every car we’ve purchased– even when it was from someone we knew and trusted. We just wanted to know what we were getting into. In fact, it has also allowed us to negotiate price more easily if the inspection comes back with something the seller didn’t know about. With the red van, though, the inspection came back without any problems– not even anything to give leverage for negotiations.
Congrats on getting your van paid off. That’s such a wise plan to have a fund going for its replacement and maintenance. I hope you get another 5 years! 🙂
The fuse is popping because the amperage is over loading your fuse. Which fuse is blowing? Once you know what fuse you can diagnose which thing is bad on that line. Don’t give up on red van until you can find out more about what’s wrong is my advice. My husband is a genius with this stuff, trying not to brag too much, but its true and he saves us and others tons of money because of this. If you want to email me we will try to help you more. For free of course, lol!
If you were local I would totally let you take a look at it Jennifer! You are sweet to offer to help.
It’s the IGN 1 fuse, which runs a lot of things (body control module, instrument cluster, right rear auto door, stop switch/shift interlock). They attempted to trace all of those circuits, but couldn’t find any issue and couldn’t get the fuse to blow by messing with any of those components or wires. It just blows intermittently at random times. They said the next step is to install an inline fuse to each component that this fuse controls and install a 15 amp at fuse block to see which component is blowing the fuse and then go from there.
And the fuse issue seems to be separate from the dying while driving issue. We just don’t want to spend the money to *figure out* the problem, which will inevitably require even more money to *fix* the problem. For anyone who is curious, the codes are p0101, p0107, p0650, p1106, p1107, p1189, p1626, u1040.
All of those codes are loss of power. Your mechanic seems to be on the right path. All of the things you listed can cost anywhere from $100 to $900+ to replace. Body Control Module is a likely suspect. Some of these things can be unplugged to (such as the door) rule them out. No way to know which one is bad and how much the part will cost without ruling each thing out easiest things first of course. Which, like you said, may be too much money depending on how long it takes your mechanic to track it down. You may have a fairly cheap part that you need but if it takes the mechanic many hours to figure out which part it is then it may cost more than the vehicle is worth. Be sure and Google something called a “TSB” for that vehicle. This is a nationally issued bulletin for GM dealers. It will tell all the reported probs for that vehicle. See if there is any drivability problem that describes your issue. May point exactly to your problem. HTH, love your blog!
Two years ago, we were driving a 1998 Dodge Stratus. We’d put a lot of money into it over the last year or so (probably around $2000-$3000) and were getting tired of that whole routine. We decided that next time there was an issue with the car, we wouldn’t fix it, but we’d get a ‘new’ one. We were able to save up enough money before the next registration renewal (where we would have had to get repairs done in order to renew) to purchase a used 2010 Toyota Corolla from a dealership. We’ve had that car for 2 years and have not had to put out any money for repairs. (We did lose a portion of our front bumper due to a run-in with a critter on a country road, but hey, the car still works!) I would definitely go that route again – not brand-new, but new enough that even though it costs some extra money, the chances of needing repairs right away are a bit lower. Ironically, we sold our Stratus to my mother-in-law for $400. After a $50 repair, she’s still on the road to this very day!
On the other side of things, my husband bought a truck through a private sale for $4000. 2-3 months later, he had to purchase a different truck as the first one had so many problems, it wasn’t worth repairing, even though he did put some money into it. That truck probably cost us a total of $8000, with 3 months of use, a year and a half of sitting around and we finally just sold it to someone for $1000, who will use it for parts. I guess you win some, you lose some!
That is awesome that your MIL is still driving the Stratus! That’s sad about the truck! It really is a gamble! I would prefer buying from a friend (or friend of a friend). I am so suspicious now of everyone who is selling a car (private or dealer).
Also, does anyone else have a problem loading this page? It takes my computer FOREVER to load, so I don’t actually click on the read more in my email all that often to come to the blog. It just takes too long!
I’m sorry Caryn! I know that is annoying. We are looking into some things to make the site run faster. We just upgraded our hosting, now I need to look at compression and caching to speed things up.
I had an issue with Firefox and Kaspersky not getting along and making everything I clicked on slow. Once I corrected that all is better.
That really stinks! Car and house purchases are awful. You never know what you can run into. You can have a professional look at it and issues can still crop up in less than a year!
So if I understand right, you can’t sell your purple van because it won’t pass the smog test (we don’t even have those here) even if you sell it to someone who can fix the problem? So what do you do with the van now? Isn’t selling it to a scrap yard still considered selling it? What would be the fines if you were caught driving a van “illegally”? What does your husband drive?
We can donate the van or sell it for parts (to a junk yard). I think those are the only real options. Maybe if it was someone I knew and trusted I would be okay with letting them have it to fix it up, then register it, but until it is registered it is still in my name and I’m responsible for whatever happens with it.
I don’t know what the fines would be. I’ve never got a ticket before (or ever been in an accident) and I’d like to keep it that way. 🙂 My husband has a 97 Camry. That will need to be replaced eventually. He’s up to 220K miles on it, I think.
I just found this on the DMV website: “If the renewal fee is not paid within 30 days following the expiration, DMV sends a series of computer generated delinquent registration notifications to the vehicle owner(s). If the renewal fee still remains unpaid after 90 days, the account is transferred to the Franchise Tax Board (FTB) for collection. FTB has the authority to withhold wages, levy bank accounts, intercept tax refunds, and seize real or personal property to collect delinquent registration fees.”
So we will want to take care of it soon to avoid any of that!
In my area (West Michigan), you can donate your car to a couple of different local charities. If they are able to fix it up and then sell it, they send you a receipt for the value of what they sold it to claim as a taxable donation.
Fearing just this sort of thing, we have bought new cars at the turnover point of the new model year-buying for instance a 2010 car when the 2011s have hit the dealers and then driven them until they are completely dead. We realize that as soon as the car leaves the dealer’s lot it’s value drops, but it is worth that cost to have dependable transportation and know the entire history of maintenance of our car.
That is nice to know the cars complete history! 🙂
Honestly, this is exactly why I would buy a new car. All cars are going to have some kind of mark up, so no matter what, you pay more than it is technically worth–right? And used cars these days have such high mileage that it just feels like it would be better to start new with a modestly priced new car. My brother got a brand new car for $13,000. I am not sure the brand–it’s one of those really small cars, but he needed something he could rely on. He can’t take time off work to bring a car to the mechanics and not know when he could get it back or that whatever the problem was would even be fixed. And that he would have enough cash put aside to fix the problem. It’s too much of a gamble.
I buy used, but with minimal miles and from a dealership. I know I’m paying more than it’s worth but between the substantial down payments I put down and GAP, I’m never upside down in it. I figure buying from a dealership gives me a better selection and the dealership isn’t going to sell me something that’s going to break down in a week. Maybe flawed logic, but it’s what I’m comfortable with.
That makes sense Ashley. There are some benefits to used from a dealer, especially if it comes with a warranty.
The perks of a new car are tempting, but I just can’t take the price tag now because we’re definitely going to pay cash for whatever we get. That’s great that your brother found a great deal!